Dodgers Miss Re-Signing Max Scherzer, Corey Seager in Free Agency

The MLB Hot Stove is scalding hot, with most players choosing to sign with a team before the assumed impending lockout begins on Wednesday, December 1.

There have been rapid fire signings by teams, and before one registers, the next one is announced. Two signing not missed by fans of the Los Angeles Dodgers are those of Max Scherzer and Corey Seager.

Scherzer reportedly agreed to a three-year, $135M contract with the New York Mets on Monday morning. While most fans didn’t think that Scherzer would be back with the Dodgers, it was fun to think about Max and Clayton Kershaw possibly pitching together for a few more years.

On Monday afternoon, Seager reportedly agreed to a deal with the Texas Rangers that would pay him $325M over the next 10 seasons. Although the Dodgers gave Mookie Betts a 10-year contract, that usually is not President of Baseball Operations Andrew Friedman’s MO.

While Seager leaving also doesn’t come as much of a surprise to Dodgers fans, it does hurt. Corey was a home-grown prospect, former Rookie of the Year, and 2020 NLCS and World Series MVP. But congrats to him for going out and getting his money.

There also was an alarming bit of news, spoken from the player themselves. On Monday afternoon, Max Muncy was on High Heat on MLB Network, where he disclosed that his arm is taking much longer to heal than anticipated.

“I’m not recovering as quick as I would like, but that’s what happens when you do some serious damage to your body. A torn UCL is a slow process.”

Muncy was hurt on the last game of the regular season after Jace Peterson of the Milwaukee Brewers ran through first base, and took Muncy’s glove and arm along with him. Muncy missed all of the 2021 playoffs.

The first baseman has not yet had surgery, but if he does, that would be a six to eight month recovery time. Even if he does not have surgery, it still won’t be certain if he will be ready to start the season on time.

Friedman and the Dodgers still have many options available to better the team. Freddie Freeman is still available in free agency. A trade with a team could be more plausible, bringing multiple players to address both the lineup and the rotation at the same time. The Oakland Athletics would be a great partner in that respect, possibly Matt Chapman, Matt Olson and Frankie Montas, to name a few.

There is still time before the lockout deadline to get things done, and Friedman always has a plan. Besides the Trevor Bauer disaster, he has always come through with acquiring top tier players to fill out the roster, although his process is usually slower than most fans would like. Just more of the wait and see game for Dodger fans right now until Friedman has put his plan in place.

145 thoughts on “Dodgers Miss Re-Signing Max Scherzer, Corey Seager in Free Agency

  1. I am sad and disappointed to see Seager leave but we will still have a strong lineup offensively as long as Bellinger rebounds, Lux progresses and Muncy heals. Really need to focus on the bench and pitching. Will need a reliable fill in for JT as he probably shouldn’t be relied on for 150 games.

  2. That was definitely a downer to hear Muncy talk about his slower than wished recovery today. It might also lead Andrew to make a trade or signing to cover first base that he wouldn’t have normally had to think about.

    1) Sign Freddie Freeman – he’d cost about 1/2 as much as Seager just signed for and when Max returns he (Muncy) could play some second and/or DH. I’m not a big fan of his third base play, but he made himself into a good first baseman so you never know.
    2) Trade for Matt Olson – this would probably take half the farm system so it would be way down my list of solutions.
    3) Trade for Garrett Cooper – he’s very underrated and can play first and the corner outfield positions. He only had 200 at bats for Miami last year so apparently they don’t view him as a regular. Make the call. I’d like to have him for our bench if nothing else.
    4) Sign Suzuki from Japan. Considered an excellent hitter and outfielder. Won’t break the bank. Would allow us to move Belli to first until Max recovers. His best position is right field because of his excellent arm but I don’t see us moving Mookie, long term. Pollock can opt out after 2022 and, unless he has a bad season, that will make financial sense for him, so beginning in 2023 the outfield could be Suzuki, Bellinger, Mookie.

    1. Glad you mentioned Freeman. He’s the only sure quality, consistently reliable player left. Of all of the top 10 FA, his consistency makes him least likely to turn into a pumpkin.

      1. Freeman’s age could ultimately be problematic. He’s going to get at least 6 years and that would take him through his age 37 year. That said, he’d be a nice left handed replacement bat for Seager.

  3. Max and Corey go elsewhere, good luck to them both. Hope Corey enjoys looking up at the Astros in the standings every day. At least we do not have to face them much. 325 mil not a bad day at the office. But way too much in my opinion. Dodgers have talent and resources. And neither of their division rivals have gotten all that better. Giants have resigned just one of their pitchers and their staff is in worse shape than LA’s right now.

    1. I would agree with that, it also means someone is going to get non tendered tomorrow. Which is the new non tender day. Braves signed Kirby Yates.

      1. Evan Phillips was fairly effective. I’d be surprised if he draws the short straw. I would think Vasquez or Nunez are more likely if it’s even a pitcher.

      2. Right now there is little OF depth. Beaty is really a 1B-3B and McKinstry more of an IF. Raley is a pretty good OF with a strong arm and moves well for a guy his size. I think it has to be a P at bottom of pitching depth.

      3. I disagree. Raley was useless last season except at AAA. He is not a prospect, he is suspect. And getting a little long in the tooth.

  4. I wish Scherzer and Seager well. The system is set up for them to cash in and they did. I think the deal for Scherzer was unwise. Seager is an outstanding offensive threat and an average to less than an average defender at a key position SS. I do not think he is worth the contract but time will tell.
    Dodgers can move Turner over and we shall see what the rest of the winter brings. If Lux and Bellinger found their way in the last quarter of the season the Dodgers should be fine offensively.
    Scherzer’s dead arm at the end of the year along with his age would have given me pause if I were a GM.
    Still waiting for a decision on Bauer….

  5. It’s hard to believe the Rangers just dropped a half of a Billion dollars on their middle infield, between Semien, and Seager, to me that’s mind boggling. I was always a Seager fan, but I’d rather have 5/6 years of Freddy Freeman, than 10 years Of Seager. Yes, Freeman will be 37 at the end of his contract, but first baseman age a heck of a lot better than 6’- 4” short stops.

    AF should start trying to get T. Turner to sign an extension.

    And Jeff, a couple of days ago you said you didn’t think any SS would get a 300 million contract. I thought you were 100% right, I’m as surprised as you probably are. I thought he would get a contract more like Semiens’ 7 years 175-200

    Good luck Cory you are a class act, I’ll be rooting for you as long as you’re not playing the Dodgers.

    1. Yes, the size of Corey’s contract did surprise me but I’m still thinking that Correa will have a hard time getting his $300MM contract. I was expecting Seager to be in the 270-280 range. So be it. I wish him well. I was always amused by the fact that he was such a quiet guy but at the same time very well spoken.

      Can’t remember who I said it to before he signed today, but I just couldn’t see him moving to NY, Philly or Boston. On the other hand, and I said this before the news, I thought that Dallas suited him perfectly. I guess he thought so too.

      1. Saved $19 million in taxes. Kinda hard to relate to these guys anymore. Actually been that way for many years.

        The Dodgers are going to take all winter to restructure. There might even be moves made in late Spring.

        The focus in LA is on the Rams, Lakers and USC.

    1. As I mentioned above, I think Correa will wind up with less than Corey and less than 300. I just don’t see anyone left who will spend that much. But, as we all know, I’ve been wrong before.

      I do think, unlike Corey, that cities like Philly, Boston and NY suit Correa’s personality very well. Question is would the Phils, Sox or Yanks pay him 300 mil. I don’t think so, nor do I think the Tigers would go that high.

    2. It’s my opinion Correa will remain more productive than Seager. Will he get paid more? Not likely. Would I accept him here? Hell yes. Do I expect him here? Hell no.

  6. I think Seager is going to be easier to replace than Scherzer is. I don’t know what AF is going to d to fill those shoes.

    You think Texas is trying to show Kershaw they are serious about competing, so he will sign There?

    1. Seager has already been replaced…………….by Trea. We just don’t know if it’s for longer than one year.

      Based on the penalty that Ozuna got today, Scherzer’s replacement might just turn out to be Bauer. They might just try to massage the situation so that they put up with a lot of yelling and screaming when he first returns and then hope it goes away when he starts pitching well. It would be ironic if Bauer was Scherzer’s replacement since Scherzer was Bauer’s replacement. I have very mixed feelings about whether Bauer should ever pitch in a Dodger uni again. I would really like to see him present his evidence and then make up my mind but that could take a long time. They would probably prefer to find a trade and pull away from him, but I don’t know how easy that would be. I also don’t know if they’re ready to eat that huge contract without getting some benefit out of it.

      1. Send him to New York. He’s not a freak there.

        I just wish they’d resolve this thing. Maybe they’re trying to stretch it out to the mid terms.

  7. Jeff, I don’t think Seager would have meshed with the rabid NY media, but he would have hit the heck out of that short porch in left field at Yankee stadium.

  8. Correa had a great season last year, but he had struggled a little the previous couple of years, so I think a big contract like that is a huge gamble for some team. These 10 year contracts can cripple a team if you get them wrong

    1. Darn if I can even think of a 10 year contract that worked out. Must be one/some but I don’t know who or where. About the best you can expect is to get 6 or 7 good years out of the player.

  9. I never expected Seager back, until the team allowed the Mets to take Scherzer away. Then I thought LA would find a way to get a deal done, but obviously not. We have Seager’s replacement at SS on the roster already, but what we do not have is any depth on this team any longer. It is one thing to allow Seager to leave (with the 11th richest contract in the history of the sport) but allowing Taylor to leave in an effort to pinch pennies simply cannot be tolerated. Scherzer would have fit in so well here, with a 3 year deal that should conclude his career just as Buehler would have hit free agency and required massive dollars. I cannot help but think that an era ended on that field in Atlanta a month ago. The Dodgers don’t look like a threat to win 100 games next year, unless they make some sort of splash move now. Signing Freddie Freeman sure would help. Simply bringing back a broken down Kershaw isn’t going to cut it. We all know we’re getting nothing much from him at this point of his career.

  10. Now there’s one place less Correa could end up, I read they were real interested in Correa a couple of weeks ago

    1. The fans would hate that. I think it is pure hogwash since they have a pretty good SS on the roster. Lots of rumors floating and today is the non tender deadline. So they might let a couple of players go. They need a spot for Daniel Hudson. One of the rumors says they are in discussions with Trea Turner about an extension. One that won’t go away and has some legs per Jon Heyman is that the Dodgers are trying to get Freddie Freeman. Makes sense, he is a California boy, and playing at home has to have some allure.

      1. Playing in L.A. might have some allure for Freddie but he was an Angel fan growing up so I’m not sure how much it would mean for him to wear Dodger blue.

        I really don’t see any scenario in which Alex A. lets Freddie sign with someone else over a 6th year.

      2. Dodgers non-tender Vasquez, as I had guessed. He’s automatically a free agent now but they could still sign him to a minor league contract.

        Other well-known non-tenders include Matthew Boyd, Vogelbach and Richard Rodriguez. Yanks are offering a contract to Sanchez.

      3. Your guess was better than mine, though I did predict a pitcher. I thought maybe Phillips since they sometimes put a premium on LHers.

      4. You think my prediction was a guess? It was an extremely well thought out, well reasoned and highly informed ………….guess. 🙂

      5. That means every team in MLB passed on claiming DJ.
        The good news is McKinney is now a free agent and we can sign him again. Hurry up and tell Andrew.

  11. Also of note, one of the hang ups with Scherzer was the fact that the Dodgers would not guarantee the third year. The Mets did and he left. I have zero problem with that. I think AF did the right thing. Also, it was noted that Seager turned down a 250 mil extension deal. Not sure of the years, but that is a lot of cabbage.

      1. He made himself an extra 75 mil by waiting, and although I don’t know how anyone could even spend 250 million let alone 325, he has every right to go for the green. On the other hand, AF had every right to draw a line he wouldn’t cross. To me, the writing was on the wall when we traded for Trea last year. I look forward to seeing what Trea does when he spends the year at shortstop. At least Boras isn’t his agent so I guess an extension might be a possibility, but I don’t see how he signs for anything less than Corey just got.

  12. If they do not extend Turner then they did not get much for Ruiz. I agree with letting Scherzer walk over the 3rd year and Seager over years 9 & 10. 10 years deals do not usually go well for the signing team only for the players,
    If Kershaw goes that is OK he is a shadow of his former level and hopefully his kids and family would get to watch him pitch at home. I wish him well.
    I think Bauer is the reason the Dodgers are not in on big pitching deals a Bauer, Urias, Buehler, Gonsolin rotation is not that bad and would win the NL West at this point. They have young arms that might make the transition.
    The Dodgers have some very good position players & pitching that are probably ready in 2023. Do they rush them?

  13. Kasten has been a strong farm team use homegrown players guy since his Atlants stewardship. It’s a great way to control costs and add profit for Team Ownership. Is this the year they decide to bite the bullet and take a risk on the Farm kids helping? And lower their outlay for a year? If they are stuck with Bauer then they have 3 excellent starters and Gonsolin I believe will be efficient next year. So that is 4 plus May will be back at the end of the year in limited duty plus White, Jackson, Pepiot, and Miller. And they must have plans for Grove as he is on the 40 man.
    If they can add one strong bat they have a very good team despite many people screaming. Remember Kahnle should be ready. I think they sign Jansen. But might let everyone else go.

    1. The Dodgers do not push prospects to the major league team unless they are ready. None of their better prospects are even near ready, and that includes Pepiot who got bombed in AAA when he was promoted at the end of the year and Miller whose longest start last year, I believe, was three innings. They are being very careful with him because he could be special……………………but they will not rush him.

      White and Jackson may get some starts next year and one or both might actually do well enough to stay in the rotation, but I refuse to believe that Andrew will start the year with his current rotation. Buehler and Urias are there for sure. Bauer? Who knows? Gonsolin, maybe. Price? I wouldn’t be totally surprised to see him on a different team come opening day. I don’t think they will be using him as a starter in any case.

      Stroman and Rodon are left as free agents. Montas, Bassitt, Manaea, Sonny Gray and possibly Castillo at a very high cost are available in trades from the A’s and Reds. Andrew will be adding something before Spring Training.

      He will also add a couple of position players. Whether they will be big names (Freeman, Chapman, Olson) or bench pieces only time will tell, but he isn’t finished building the 2022 Dodgers yet. When they take the field on opening day they will, barring major injuries, probably still be favored to win the division.

      1. The lineup is good and maybe great if:
        – Muncy is healed
        – Bellinger bounces back
        – Betts stays healthy
        – JT repeats last year’s production
        – Lux continues to develop
        I know alot of ifs.
        They need to find two decent RH bats for the bench. One for OF and one for IF. Not as much an issue obviously if CT3 returns. They are OK from left side with Beaty, McKinstry and Rios.

      2. Trade for Garrett Cooper (first base/outfield), and sign free agent Donovan Solano (2nd and 3rd base and also a little shortstop).

  14. I like Rodon, and he wouldn’t cost us any prospects. I don’t think I would want to pay the cost of trading for Castillo, the reds seem to think he is cy young, he hasn’t had one full good year for quite a while.

    If I was going the trade route, it would be for Basset, Montas, or Gray.

    1. Montas and Gray have two years of control remaining. Bassitt has one so would probably cost the least in prospects. I think he’s really under appreciated. Definitely wouldn’t mind seeing him in blue.

      Montas is a big guy. He and Bazooka would make a great 1-2 punch.

  15. Lifted this from MLB News:

    “Meanwhile, the expectation is that Chris Taylor will also sign elsewhere. It’s one thing not to sign any of your own high-profile free agents, but it’s another to be a big spender like the Dodgers and remain mostly quiet in a fast-moving market.

    One way to turn heads would be to sign Carlos Correa, who is hated by the Dodgers fanbase because of the 2017 World Series and its subsequent fallout. But they would likely embrace the one who had 7.2 rWAR last season, even if it means looking the other way.

    The Dodgers have also been linked to Marcus Stroman and Freddie Freeman and could still bring back Taylor after losing Seager and Scherzer. Until this happens, they are losers in the frenzy.“

    1. We need to remember that the “winners of the off season” aren’t necessarily the winners of the actual season. Take the Padres, for example, who have had major off seasons twice in the past few years only to come up short in the actual season.

      We need to trust AF to do his stuff and let’s see what the roster looks like on opening day.

  16. I think we are going to have to wait a good long while for the rest of this to shake out, if the season starts on it’s scheduled time, I will be shocked. Most of the offers the owners have proposed, that Were leaked out, have been border line insulting to the players, they seem to want to dictate, rather than negotiate, with the players.

    1. But when I read that the Players are upset about the declining average salary, I am like Are You Kidding Me!! The salaries are outrageous and getting to be more so.

  17. Sad news today, former Dodger outfielder, Don Demeter passed away at the age of 86. Don was a favorite of mine and he replaced Duke Snider in CF when Duke’s knee condition had him moving to RF for the injured Carl Furillo in the 1959 championship season. Don wore #2 with the Dodgers. RIP, Don, you gave us some great memories. Also passing today, Lamarr Hoyt, former ChiSox ace at the age of 66

  18. With the CBT deadline tonight, the players made a counter proposal to the MLB. They propose splitting the leagues into 4 divisions with 8 teams in 2 and 7 in the other 2. Also instead of the 14 team playoff MLB desires, they want a 10-12 team playoff. Also they want the CBT raised to 240 mil. MLB already had given up on their 100/180 request due to pushback from the players union. I doubt they reach an agreement before the deadline.

  19. Saw an interview with Max about why he went to the Mets. He got personal phone calls from the GM and the owner, and he talked to deGrom whom he is excited to be paired with. The location of the Mets spring training site was also a plus as was the fact that NY is about a 1 1/2 hour flight home to Florida, which means he can spend more time with his family. And he said he was assured that the owner wants to win now. Okay, it is all BS, but ok.

  20. At 8 PM Pacific time tonight, the deadline will have passed. Will AF do anything? At this point, unlikely.

      1. Could be wrong, won’t be the first time. Passan reporting Taylor is coming back to the Dodgers pending a physical.

      2. You are right, 2 years. Rosenthal reporting that Taylor is a done deal pending the physical.

    1. Yes, how many opportunities for a save will he get?
      Still hoping to see Jansen and Taylor sign today, but not betting the ranch on it.

  21. Looks like Chris Taylor is coming back. Passan said talks going well. Have 7 hours to complete it

    1. That is great!
      I wondered how many other teams would both offer a chance to play more that the Dodgers, a chance to win and guarantee a starting position?

      1. He couldn’t have played much more than he did. He started almost every day except when injured, and maybe playing one position isn’t all that important to him. Well, if Jeff Passan is right at least we won’t lose all our free agents.

  22. As of 3:44 Rosenthal reports they have a deal pending a physical. I see no problem with Taylor passing that. Now someone gets taken off of the roster.

    1. Gotta be one of Nunez, Raley, Neuse.
      Nunez is my favorite of the three but possibly the most logical to go. We have a lot of lefty relievers.

      1. I would concur with that assessment. Probably Nunez unless they really like what he showed them. But Taylor plays the outfield too and is RH so my guess is Raley.

      2. Even with CT3 signed, I still think they need Raley for OF depth. They only have him, Avans and recently signed Martin with AAA experience. Martin and Raley with some MLB experience. I’m talking actual OFs not utility players like Beaty, McKinstry, Rios and Neuse who should only see the OF in an emergency.

      3. They have 7 players listed as outfielders Only Pollock and Betts hit from the right side. They have a ton of Lefty outfielders. Outfielders like Raley or better are plentiful on the free agent market, guys with more experience than he has who are better hitters. Corey Dickerson, and a guy named Pederson both out there. They do not need Raley.

      4. Well we shall find out soon. I have posted a couple of times that we need a couple of quality RH bats for the bench. At least one more now that CT3 is signing. Yes we have an out of balance number of LH hitters on bench so Raley could be the one. I had mentioned Avans and Martin as OF depth at AAA. Also both LH.
        So is Joc, but I wouldn’t mind having him back especially with DH coming.

      5. Avans and Martin are not on the 40 man roster. Both will be at AAA. I trust Beaty as a pinch hitter more than Raley. Players have broken off talks. Lockout looming. About an hour to the deadline, so you might see some last minute movement. Cubs are signing Stroman and Rich Hill headed back to Boston.

      6. I thought the agreement expired at 11:59 Eastern time, so wouldn’t that be the deadline? In other words midnight Eastern, 9:00 Pacific.

      7. I am fully aware who is on the 40 man and the AAA. And yes Beaty is the number one option to PH. It was mind boggling to send him down to AAA late last season and keeping MCKinley who hit about half his weight. Beaty is clutch.

      8. Have to agree with you there. Unlike when he first took over, I have come to trust Freidman’s decision making process. You can be assured he has a plan. He also knows pretty much who he is going to target as depth for the pen and the starting rotation as well as the bench. He knows exactly how bad they were last year. I believe Pujols will resign with the Cardinals for his farewell tour. There are a ton of outfielders who are free agents. He could do what he has done every year and stash a few at AAA. Some back of the rotation starters will get stashed there also. CBA negotiations ended today after a total of 7 minutes. They are that far apart. And anything that keeps the younger players from getting paid is going to be rejected by the union.

  23. Morosi and Heyman are reporting that the Dodgers are chasing Freddie Freeman. So are the Yankees. I would like to see him in Dodger blue and I think that would be more appealing to him than pinstripes.

    1. Better chase him hard and fast. Clock is ticking. I suppose he could leave Braves the way Seager left Dodgers. Years and more $$$$$. Not much loyalty from players anymore when such huge Amoy of money is thrown your way.

    2. The Yankees need him more than we do so will probably offer more.
      And he’d probably look good in pin stripes if he matches the right tie with the outfit.

  24. If AF could pull off a Freeman deal, along with Taylor resigning, I would be pretty happy with our offense. I’m sure Andrew would be able to find someone to bolster the bench, those guys aren’t that hard to find. So go ahead Andrew, give Freddy his sixth year, you have my permission.

    I have no clue what he’s going to do with the starting pitching, looks like that will all have to come together after the CBA is signed.

  25. I’m with Jeff, a big yes on Freeman, no on Rizzo. I’d go after Castellanos and move Bellinger to first, before I’d bring Rizzo in.

    1. Not me, the guy has a negative 10 dWAR for his career. I am not moving Mookie out of right for that guy. Love his bat, his glove, no so much. I want more defense, not less. And Muncy is no lock to start the season with his UCL the way it is.

      1. I agree, no way would I want Castellanos anywhere near right field. He could be the DH but then we’d need to feel good about JT playing third base for most of the year. I think I’d rather have Bryant, who is much more versatile, but probably also more expensive.

      2. I agree. Nuese DFA’d as Taylor is added to the roster. Owners voted unanimously for a lockout to begin tomorrow. No time set yet.

      3. Hah! You keep trying to get rid of Raley, Bear, and Andrew keeps leaving him on the roster. He’s still on thin ice though. We’re bound to add more people after the lock out and at some point they’ll need his spot on the 40-man.

      4. I know Raley didn’t hit much and struck out way too much but one thing to really admire is the way he busts his ass running to first. I get so tired of seeing some that seem to run at 80%.

      5. Yeah, I just cannot understand it, Andrew never listens to me ! It is going to be stressful on the fans waiting on these two sides to make some sort of deal.

  26. Gary, the guy runs like a Wookie. Chewbacca is faster than that dude. He looks like a Sherman tank running.

    1. I think Gary was referring to the effort, not the speed, but I also seem to remember that he was one of the faster runners on the team. Tried to check it out but couldn’t find any speed ratings for all the players. Maybe someone else knows where to find that.

      1. Hey man, my glasses are new. What I could use is some younger eyes. But the dude looked slow to me. And he is a windmill. Strikes out way too much. But he is still a Dodger….at least until AF signs someone a lot better.

      2. At 6’4” and 245 Raley is built like a linebacker but can move as shown by 25 triples over a 3 year period in minors. Bear just doesn’t recognize athleticism when he sees it.

      1. I would not worry about him running me over. I am no lightweight. He doesn’t look athletic to me. More like a tank. You must love the guy. To me, he was just another slug off of the bench. As bad as the rest. McKinney looks like a ballplayer, but doesn;t hit like one.

      2. I’ll take results over looks any day, but unfortunately neither of those guys had results last year. At least Raley has hit well in the minors, but those numbers don’t count in Dodger Stadium.

      3. I don’t love Raley but knowing we don’t have much in way of real OF prospects above A ball, I didn’t see him being non-tendered or DFA’d at present time.

      4. Raley is what he is. A good AAA hitter who has not really had a chance in MLB> Maybe he thrives in the next year, maybe not, but when things open up again, I expect AF to sign a few guys with experience and Raley will be the odd man out.

      5. Not right now maybe, but once free agency opens up, I expect LA to be very busy and outfielders to fill AAA and maybe the bench will be on the list. They are still too lefty heavy bench wise.

  27. I do not understand all the talk about Correa when the Dodges have the best shortstop in all of baseball. They need to spend their money to extend Trea Turner for about 8 years. According to 2 ranking sources TT is the best play in the major leagues and 2 others rank him the 3rd best player in the major leagues. Also, TT is rated either the first or second best SS in the major leagues by these authorities. These same sources rate Correa the 30th, 51st, 52nd and 69th best player and the 6th, 9th (2) and 11th best SS. Extend TT!
    Jim Johnson

    1. Hey JAMES Fred (still can’t get over that). Now that I’ve had my fun for a second time, I assume you’ll be OK with being called Jim.

      I agree that I’d rather have Trea than Correa although I admit that 2017 is factoring into my opinion. Maybe the folks who think we are or should be after Correa feel that we would use him at third and move JT to DH.

      Question for you: If Trea is the best player in baseball or even in the top 5, that would put him ahead of Seager. So please tell me why you think Trea would settle for an extension of 8 years and remove himself from open bidding when Corey just got 10 years. I assume you wouldn’t be paying him 325 million over 8 years or am I mistaken?

      I just don’t see Correa being forced on the Dodger clubhouse so I think you’re safe there. Can you just imagine signing Correa and not being able to get rid of Bauer and having them both in the clubhouse next year? Might be some pushback from the rest of the roster. Not only that, Bauer hates the Astros and the fact that they cheated. He’s been going back and forth with Bregman on Twitter ever since. So you’d have two players who hate each other in the same clubhouse and the rest of the guys most of whom probably don’t want either one of them there. Fun times!

  28. I’m a big T Turner fan, now that he gets to play his natural position, I think we’re going to see what he is really like. I think the move to second started to affect his offense a bit.

    No on Correa, he’s going to want Seager money. Who wants any of those cheating Astros, in Dodger blue, anyway.

    Freddie! Freddie! Freddie!

    1. Turner is going to want the same money the other shortstops are getting. He’s outproduced Seager in the same amount of time in the league. Correa has outproduced both of them.

      1. Seager’s OPS in 2021 was .915 for career .870
        Correa’s OPS in 2021 was .850 for career ..837
        Turner’s OPS in 2021 was .911 for career . .850
        Obviously there are other statistical factors that could be used but Corey has outperformed both if OPS is used. Now in 2021 he missed many games due to the wrist fracture but the other two have also had their share of injuries during their careers
        Then if you factor in defense they probably are ranked Correa, Turner, Seager and of course speed and base running clearly goes to Turner, then Correa, though Correa no longer steals bases.

  29. Nope, Correa doesn’t steal bases, he steals signs. I do not want the guy on my team. I am ok with Turner, but I think he will be here one year and that is it. I still get the feeling he is an east coast guy.

    1. I got the same feeling about Turner. I don’t see him extending. I could be wrong.

      All the players involved were doing what they were told to do. MLB should have come down hard on the Astros organization. They chose not too. Clearly, if you are above the law, its ok to cheat. I can forgive the players. I’m not yet ready to forgive MLB or the Asstros.

      1. Same here. Integrity in the game is sadly lacking these days. And MLB has let some really lousy umpires keep their jobs. Angel Hernandez is among the worst. But they are afraid of a discrimination suit if they fire the guy. DJ Peters looks like he is going to sign with the KBO’s Lotte Giants. At 26, with a couple of good years there he could get a MLB contract. Hudson’s deal includes a option for 6.5 in 23 with a 1 mil buyout.

  30. Jeff, Keith & Scoop,
    I am new to this forum and really appreciate communicating with you gentlemen. Some background re my comments about Trea Turner: I have watched almost every game he has played since 2016. I am not vain enough to believe I have the exclusive right to judge his talents and worth, and I welcome contrary opinions as well as supporting ones. Having said that; I believe TT has the best combination of baseball talents in all of major league baseball. More about that in future blogs. As to your comments today: I think 10-year, $300,000,000+ contracts for 27-30 year-old players are financially irresponsible and overvalue the later years of the contract. As to TT, he is 28 years old and I believe to expect 8 years of high performance is appropriate. The market rate for top shortstops seems to be about $31M -$32M, so I believe about $250M over 8 years is reasonable. By the way, the ESPN rankings which ranked TT the best player in baseball and the best shortstop ranked Seager 63rd and 10th, respectively and Correa 69th and11th, respectively. Keith, if Roberts bats TT leadoff he will produce more run-scoring opportunities than he will if he bats anywhere else. I believe the 1-2 combination of TT and Betts could be the best in baseball. Scoop, I respectively disagree with your comment that Correa has outproduced both TT and Seager. I have done a “scoring opportunities created” for both Correa and TT, and TT’s score is higher. Incidentally, over their careers their number of at bats is almost the same – Correa has 52 more than TT. Enough for today.
    Jim Johnson

    1. Scoop responded to me that his comment was based on WAR. I’m more old school and don’t profess to understand it or what the algorithm is.

      I would also be interested to understand how ESPN arrived at their rankings. IMO if they did not take into account Seagers wrist fracture that might explain his low ranking.

      1. Thanks. I looked at the link. Overwhelming! It certainly captures many, many variables. Is it the most valuable measure because of its complexity? Maybe. It certainly seems to be valued by most baseball stat heads. But I’ve worked with numbers and stats my whole life/career and while nothing that complex I know there is no perfect measurement.

        Trea Turner is one of the fastest players in baseball yet he was near the top of grounding into DPs this year while winning the NL batting championship. He did it 18 times. Seems odd? Was it because he consistently hit the ball hard? Did he hit the ball near the second base bag an inordinate amount of times with a runner on first. Did he happen to hit it right at some of the top defensive players vs weaker defensive players? Chris Taylor only hit into 5 DPs. He runs well too. Hits the ball hard too. What’s the difference? Well, Chris had a strikeout rate much higher so percentage of balls put in play could be a factor. Did he have a higher rate of fly balls? My point? I love stats but there are too many variables to come up with a perfect stat or measurement of value. WAR what is it good for? Ooops almost went to the protest song. I guess WAR is the widely accepted top dog stat now.

      2. I’m old school too you know. It took me a while to accept the whole moneyball Bill James SABR analysis platforms, but after reading what goes into it I realized it makes a lot of sense. I was always an on base and slugging proponent so I found adding them together was actually brilliant. WAR has been an evolving science and though I still have a few issues (defense is finally coming around, 3 outcomes is b.s.) I respect the fact that GM’s, and agents, are pounding Wins Above Replacement in contract negotiations. The guys who produce the highest WAR numbers are going to be the guys who get paid. There may be a few exceptions (Corey Seager) but by and large WAR tells the story on production.

      3. On defense I’ve looked at some of that before and wondered how the use of shifts have affected the stats. When a 3B throws out runners from the second base position does that affect his range? Takes away assists from the actual 2B. How many batted balls hit yo the left should have been fielded by the 3B or SS if not for the shift. The extreme seems to be Machado frequently throwing out Muncy from short RF. I’d that somehow taken into account by the metrics?

      4. I’ve wondered how batting position might affect Seager’s WAR? He has hit 2nd about 80% of his at bats limiting some RBI opportunities perhaps. I always thought he should be in the 3-5 spots more.
        Correa has hit in the 3-5 positions about 81% of at bats.
        Turner well over 92% in 1-2 spots. But his speed, SBs and better D help make up for that.

    2. Interesting that you feel Trea should be our leadoff hitter, Jim. I would tend to agree based on stats but we all know Doc wants to keep every player as happy as he can. Mookie has a stated preference for batting leadoff. He was here first and will probably be here after Trea leaves. If I read the tea leaves correctly, I’m guessing we won’t get our wish and we will see Trea batting third again next year with Belli, Muncy or Lux sandwiched between them because you absolutely must alternate R/L/R (it’s going to be in the new CBA).

      I would love to see Trea, Mookie, Belli batting one, two, three (assuming that Cody continues his late season improvement and is willing to change his approach on two-strike counts). Then I would just run the hell out of those guys on the bases (despite the new approach saying that isn’t a good idea). Manfred is playing around with a new rule that says a pitcher can only throw to first twice during an at bat. Frankly, I think that’s pretty ridiculous because it gives the runner a ridiculous advantage, but if we have those three at the top of the lineup I’ll be happy to see it used if they decide to.

    3. Jim, Seager’s contract is front loaded. He will be getting 140 mil over the first 4 seasons with the Rangers. He got a 5 million dollar signing bonus. Owners should have learned by now that long term deals for older vets rarely pay off. Pujols was nothing like the dominant player he was in St. Louis at any time in his deal with the Angels. Trout got his deal at a young age, so how good of a deal that is still to be determined. Mookie will probably not be the player in year 10 of his deal that he was in year one. But ownership knew in order to keep him after what they traded to get him would be a high number in years and money. Baseball forgot what financial responsibility is a long time ago. It is about marketing and making money. Players like Betts make a lot of bucks in Jersey and other sales. Also to be noted, the Dodgers would have had to offer Seager 401 million to have him earn as much as he will in Texas since there is no state income tax there. That is 76 mil more than what he got. Dodgers made a payment of 20 mil to Bauer this week for his 2021 contract.

      1. I still believe what drives contracts is wins. OPS definitely is contained within the WAR algorithm, but Correa has put up more WAR than all of the other shortstops in the conversation. If Seager can stay on the field he could maybe match him. So far, he hasn’t. He’s played fewer games than any of them.

        It’s going to be a long winter.

  31. Scoop I get what your saying about the stats for the three SSs in question, can’t argue with black and white, so I guess it’s a preference thing for me. I’m with Jim on this one, I hope that Andrew can extend Trea, he’s a remarkable player to watch. I would put TT at lead off, because I think Betts can be more effective batting second, or third, than TT can, but at the one hole I think the two would end up close to the same in production.

    Jim, it’s nice to have you put your two cents worth in, please keep contributing, everybody here is pretty respectful of each other, so don’t be afraid to speak your mind. Jeff is The Godfather around here, he’s been here the longest, bear is the toughest, scoop is the smartest, and everyone just ignores me 😀 Tmax, Gorden,and Gary are pretty good guys too. Welcome.

    BTW, I’m a huge TT fan also, looking forward to watching him play short for us this season.

    1. Thanks for appointing me Godfather Keith, but Bear and Scoop have been hanging out here longer than I have. Just call me Godfather 3. The other two can battle for the honor of supreme Godfather. It should be interesting to see if tough or smart wins out.

    2. I like Turner too. There were several moments this past season where it looked like he some some momentary lapses, but it’s easy to recognize the talent there. The question that arises is who is the Dodgers shortstop going forward? We have Turner for one year. Will he be extended? That remains to be seen. He knows he was Plan B. Everyone knows. I wonder how he feels about it.

  32. I guess my age is catching up to me, I’m losing my memory, but I still have a full head of hair, so it could be worse.😀

  33. I would hope he’d get over any sleights, if he got the extension dollars he wanted, plus with the Dodgers, he would get the added bonus of knowing he is going to play with a team good enough to compete for a WS every year, that’s got to be worth something, at least enough to get over any insult he might have felt. Hopefully?

  34. Scoop,
    Speaking of wins – here are some statistics regarding a player’s impact on team performance. In 2019 when Trea Turner was out with a broken finger, the Nationals won 16 and lost 24, a 40% win performance. In the first 40 games back with Turner, the National won 24 and lost 16, a 60% win performance. With Turner, the Nationals won 52 and lost 27 of their last 79 games, a 65.8 win percentage. Similarly, before Turner the 2021 Dodgers won 65 and lost 44, a 59.6 win percentage. With Turner, the Dodgers won 41 and lost 12 of their last 53 games; a 77.4 win percentage! This cannot be all happenstance and/or coincidence. Turner was the only non-pitcher difference (Scherzer being the only other difference) in the lineup for those last 53 games. If you delete Scherzer’s 7 wins, the Dodger’s record was 34 wins and 12 losses, a 73.9 win percentage. These are amazing numbers. You can argue that he was not the only reason for the great increase in performance, but the fact remains that he was the only difference in the lineup.
    Jim Johnson

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